young male with OCD and elevated EBV/TGF-B
Home › Forums › The Question Forum › Case Study Forum › young male with OCD and elevated EBV/TGF-B
young male with OCD and elevated EBV/TGF-B
- This topic has 7 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by
Eric Fete.
7 Replies
-
AuthorPosts
-
September 8, 2022 at 12:51 pm #31938
Hi all
would love input: 20 yr old male with long standing hx of OCD and anxiety multiple counseling sessions for years, some anxiety meds. on Vitamin D and GABA too. tested for many things but recently positive for TGF-Beta (the clinic had concerns and recommend eval for mold?) and EBV titers + no know hx of mono or mold
eating pretty clean and active no other health issues
just wanted to get a feel for further testing and more specifically for Rx options to address this?
Thanks
Eric
September 13, 2022 at 6:04 am #31939Hello @andkeller2gmail-com and @byurthgmail-com, would love to have your insights here. Thank you!
September 13, 2022 at 9:52 pm #31940I am going to punt this one to @andkeller2gmail-com cause she has so much expertise in this arena!!!
Dr Yurth
September 13, 2022 at 11:20 pm #31941Hey Eric!
So hearing this patient’s story… I am assuming that you are wanting to focus on the mood issue, and that this is what is most affecting his life.
a)I am not sure what to say about the EBV titers, since most young adults I know have had mono. And many kids have such mild cases that they swear they have never had mono, despite showing immunity to EBV. So, unless you tell me his titers remain super high for a long time after illness (>750 IgM and IgG) plus maybe some EA titers persisting…. I’m not too excited about this. And if EBV were an issue for him, I would expect to hear more about fatigue (not usually primary mood issues).
b)Mold exposure however can ABSOLUTELY lead to significant mood issues. I have seen happy people become frankly suicidal after a significant exposure (this would have to be in the primed or genetically susceptible human).
About the TGF-beta. Yes this can point one towards the possibility of a mold issue. However, with things like CIRS, or chronic infections, etc…. Looking at the labs, it is more as if “when I look at all of this data together, it points towards this likely being an issue”. I say this, since these labs are not specific for mold exposure.
I think that it would be a good idea to further evaluate this by
-asking history about possible water damage building exposure. And if this history isn’t looking interesting, try to see if you can figure out when symptoms started… trying to link symptoms time-wise to a change in venue, etc. I would also expect to hear symptoms of fatigue and brain fog as well.
-order mold labs that can easily be done at labcorp (without running labs that are hard to order initially).
In addition to your TGF-beta …MMP-9, MSH, VEGF. You can also look at things like ADH/osm. If all of these are off… then can get more serious about testing (will be send outs, etc)If you really think it is mold (either from the story or from the labs…) then the biggest intervention is to get them out of this situation.
Meaning if you have $100 to spend on his care, spend all of it on getting him out of here there, before spending on treatments (I say this since even if treating him well… I think a day in a mold toxin laden environment makes someone with CIRS take more steps back than you can move them forward with treatments).After getting him “out” I would focus treatment on:
-removal of toxins from his body (too big a topic until you know this is what is needed for this patient… but in short…. Could use CSM, Welchol, GI detox, other binders etc).
and
-calming the immune “fire”. In short this is an awesome place for TA1. Also, remember how helpful KPV can be for people recovering from mold exposures. (VIP can be very important in CIRS recovery. But not until the end of treatment, so not yet).
and
-repairing the damage done. Glia (plasmalogens) are awesome for helping repair the brain after this kind of mood change after mold.
and
-after all of the above is handled, if still with significant mood issues related to CIRS, then this is a perfect place for Ketamine to reset things (and I mean here, as mentioned in my post about a ketamine question prior … to be done IV by an anesthesiologist). Treatment course is usually 6 treatments or the like (as long as you have already handed the above. If someone needs repeated courses, then I suspect that the damage hasn’t been stopped/healed, etc yet ).
I hope hearing some of the above helps you decide some next steps for this young man. If you get more data on him, pls post it here and I’m happy to give more input.
Side note- if his symptoms came on suddenly after an illness with a sore throat…. I would certainly add PANDAS to your DDx to explore further. This would usually have started years back (but you did say “long standing”.). Anxiety and OCD from PANDAS usually has an irrational tone to their fears.
September 14, 2022 at 6:56 am #31942Hey Cynthia
Thank you SO Much for this amazing information! I will speak with them more soon and get more information. I will keep you in the loop!
Eric
September 15, 2022 at 7:07 pm #31943Cynthia
So he has had Strep multiple times; not sure if it really got worse after that or not (has had the OCD/anxiety since childhood)- mom thinks it may have worsened it but not sure.
I am not super familiar with PANDAS but a lot of the sx sound like him!
They wanted to see if we could do any additional testing first: what would you recommend? MMP-9, MSH, VEGF , any others?
Thanks
Eric
September 16, 2022 at 10:15 am #31944Ok-
As you and I discussed (so I know you know, but still feel I have to post it here)…..pretty much 100% of kids get strep in childhood. And most of those doesn’t have PANDAS. The important part of the story would be-he was normal
-he got strep
-then crazy anxiety/OCD/behavior change, etc.It is hard when parents don’t remember…. But If he was “always an anxious boy”, not as good a story.
Most of my patients with anxiety and OCD are well treated by combinations of SSRI, therapy and specialized EBT for OCD. I know he has done therapy and meds, maybe also consider looking for a center like “the Evidenced Based Anxiety Treatment Center of Seattle”. They have been very helpful for my hardest to treat patients with OCD. Oh, and I also have been using Neurofeedback in my clinics for 12 years… with great success.
I usually start with the above unless the story is more like:
-he was fine
-moved into a moldy house (got strep, etc)
-anxiety and OCD started.
These above make me think “inflammatory cause”.But yes when you do draw, you could add ASO, streptozyme, DNAse B, CRP and ESR. (Often these are not positive in PANDAS, however if they were positive we would have something more to talk about).
Keep me posted!
Cynthia
December 10, 2022 at 8:16 am #31945Hey Cynthia
Hope all is well!
So TGF B was over 5000, c4 a was over 15000, cortisol was low in AM (2). Low vit. D, other labs unremarkable. visual testing for mold was negative.
Fatigue , some “stomach aches” off and on, tired a lot, some night sweats.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Eric
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.