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TB4 possible causing autonomic dysfunction?

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TB4 possible causing autonomic dysfunction?

Stephen Matta, DO, MBA, CAQSM November 30, 2024 at 6:05 pm
9 replies 9 months ago

9 Replies

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  • #33555
    Stephen Matta, DO, MBA, CAQSM
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    See this message from my patient from 3 days ago.

    “it’s been a few weeks since I took the peptides and I am doing really bad. It triggered or turned something on with my nervous system and I’m in a constant tremor fight or flight state, no matter how much I meditate, calm myself down, etc. It’s honestly terrifying. Does Dr. Mattas have any suggestions? From talking to people and researching, it seems it’s the TB4 not the 157 that did this to me. But who knows – all I know is I had none of these symptoms before taking the peptides and now my nervous systems is literally shutting down / feels like I’m on 50 stimulants when I even just talk to someone. This is really bad. Please let me know if Dr. Mattas has any suggestions on what I can do to help with a major nervous system issue from peptides. My eyes have been twitching out of control for weeks, I can barely go around people now. This is insane. It’s 100% from the peptides (seems like they turned something on with my nervous system), but regardless, I could just use some help with how to calm this down – did this do permanent damage? Why is this still happening weeks after I stopped them?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Just to give you an idea of how bad this is, even if I hear like a horn beep outside, it sends a giant shock through my head and body (like an extreme startle response). It’s crazy. I don’t know what to do”

    In case you’re wondering, we of course only use peptides from sources that are SSRP partners.  I’ve never heard of this reaction to any peptides, let alone TB4.  Any thoughts?

    #33556
    Clyde Boswell
    Participant
    SSRP Certified

    I have patients report that when they use TB4 before bed (which I do not recommend) that they can have sleep pattern disturbances. As for autonomic symptoms and what this patient is describing, this seems unlikely.

    What was the patient’s current dose?

    What is the patient being treated for?

    Any prior medical history related to these symptoms?

    Clyde Boswell

    #33557
    Stephen Matta, DO, MBA, CAQSM
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    Thanks for replying.

    He is a 39 year old patient. Came to me specifically for peptides to treat chronic low back pain.  No prior history of autonomic dysfunction that he reported.  Not taking any other medications.   Otherwise healthy.

    #33558
    Anthony Phan
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    I have encountered this issue in patients who received the COVID-19 vaccine or have long-haul COVID-19: some will present with full-on P.O.T.S. Some might have a mild like P.O.T.S.

    TB4:

    Neural Regeneration and Aberrant Nerve Repair: TB4 promotes nerve repair by facilitating actin polymerization, axon regeneration, and Schwann cell migration.

    •It also increases growth factors like Fibroblast Growth Factor (FGF-2) and Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF), which support neural and vascular regrowth.

    *A)

    If autonomic nerves (sympathetic or parasympathetic) are regenerated improperly or excessively, it could lead to:

    Sympathetic hyperactivity: Overactivity in repaired sympathetic fibers (e.g., tachycardia, hypertension).

    Parasympathetic dysfunction: Impaired parasympathetic signaling (e.g., gastroparesis, hypotension).

    Example: This mechanism is similar to what is observed in some cases of Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS), where nerve repair leads to disorganized autonomic function.

     

    B)Prolonged or excessive immune modulation could inadvertently affect the autonomic control centers, such as the hypothalamus or vagus nerve.

    TB4 drives angiogenesis via VEGF and promotes vascular repair.

    C)

    Potential Dysautonomia Pathway:

    •Abnormal angiogenesis or misdirected vascular-nerve regrowth could result in:

    Impaired autonomic control of blood flow (e.g., orthostatic intolerance, Raynaud ’s-like symptoms).

    Hyperinnervation of blood vessels, leading to overactive vasoconstriction (e.g., hypertension or excessive sweating).

    D)

    Overactivation of the PI3K-Akt pathway:  prolonged activation beyond normal physiological levels. This can result from:

    •Mutations in pathway components (e.g., PI3K, PTEN, or Akt).

    •Chronic stimulation by external signals (e.g., growth factors, drugs).

    •Disruption of harmful feedback mechanisms (e.g., loss of PTEN function).

    Our office has now transformed into treating COVID-19 vaccine injuries. Unfortunately, they come from all over because physicians are either not connecting or in denial. We are also seeing “Turbo Cancer” from the jab. Dr. William Makis (Substack), a Canadian conventional oncologist before COVID-19, is now waking up to the fact that cancer is a metabolic disease starting with the Mitochondria. A prominent oncologist is now treating cancer by unlocking the Warburg effect.

    Consequences of PI3K-Akt Pathway Overactivation

    1. Cancer

    Mechanism:

    •Overactivation promotes uncontrolled cell growth and survival, bypassing apoptosis.

    •Increased angiogenesis and metabolic reprogramming support tumor progression.

    Examples:

    •Common in cancers such as breast, prostate, ovarian, and glioblastoma.

    2. Autonomic Nervous System Effects

    Mechanism:

    •Excessive nerve repair or regrowth due to enhanced Akt activation could lead to hyperregeneration or miswiring of autonomic nerves.

    •Disruption of homeostatic signaling may result in autonomic dysfunction (e.g., dysautonomia).

    Outcome: This may manifest as sympathetic hyperactivity (e.g., hypertension) or parasympathetic dysfunction (e.g., gastroparesis).

     

     

    #33559
    Anthony Castore
    Participant
    SSRP Certified

    It sounds like this patient is in a full-blown autonomic overdrive, and their nervous system is stuck in a loop that won’t calm down. My first thought is that something triggered an exaggerated fight-or-flight response, likely through neuroinflammatory or immune pathways. Peptides like TB4 typically act as “repair crews,” but in some rare cases, they can activate dormant issues or amplify underlying sensitivities in the nervous system, especially if there’s a predisposition to things like mast cell activation, latent infections, or autonomic imbalance.

    This patient’s description of heightened startle responses, tremors, and constant fight-or-flight sensations suggests their sympathetic nervous system is completely dialed up. It’s like their body’s alarm system has been tripped, and now it’s stuck blaring at full volume.

    The first step I’d take is calming everything down. Magnesium, particularly L-threonate or glycinate, can help quiet overactive neurons. Omega-3s can target neuroinflammation, and curcumin—preferably a BDMC-rich formulation—can bring the inflammatory response down further. If supplements alone don’t help, something like low-dose naltrexone or even a beta-blocker could help reset the system by calming microglial activation or toning down the sympathetic response.

    At the same time, it might be worth digging deeper with some testing. Markers for mast cell activation, cytokines, or neurotransmitter imbalances could shed light on what’s happening. If there’s a latent trigger like a viral reactivation or an environmental factor, addressing that directly could be key.

    This isn’t a typical reaction to TB4 or BPC-157, but every patient’s biology is unique. If they’re open to it, I’d also suggest lifestyle measures like vagus nerve stimulation through deep breathing or cold immersion therapy. It’s a slow process, but it might help bring their nervous system back into balance. The good news is, this doesn’t sound permanent—just like a circuit breaker, it might take the right combination of steps to reset.

    #33560
    Stephen Matta, DO, MBA, CAQSM
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    Thanks Anthony.  Good to hear from you.  I like your recommendations.  I prescribed propranolol already and he’s in for a follow up.  I’m thinking about doing a stellate ganglion block since I’ve had some great results resetting autonomics.

    #33561
    Christina Campbell
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    Other modalities to balance the vagus nerve and by extension ANS is Gammacore vagal nerve stim.  Also Braintap.  These have been modalities that I have used successfully in the past.  Please let me know how this case turns out and what you have found as potential underlying triggers.

    #33562
    Kristelle Reyes
    Member
    SSRP Staff

    Hello @drstevemeetingpointhealth-com,

    Here’s a video response from Dr. Seeds’ January Office Hours at 02:14. Please watch by clicking the link below:

    https://ssrpinstitute.org/ssrp-members-videos/

    Thank you! ?

    #33563
    William Seeds
    Participant
    SSRP Certified

    @drstevemeetingpointhealth-com

    Steve,

    where are you with this patient can u=you give me an update ?

    thanks Dr Seeds

    #33564
    Stephen Matta, DO, MBA, CAQSM
    Member
    SSRP Certified

    When we reached out to the patient, he didn’t want to do any more with us unfortunately.  He did say that his symptoms did return to normal after about two months.

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